The Panacea for Your Frustrations – Having the Right Mentors at Your Side Can be a Big Piece of That Solution

How many times have you forgotten about the joy in what you do?  Or being authentic in business? What about learning from mentors and your failures (if any) to help you do better?

In this episode, I talk with Rod Bourn about many of these types of issues and how Rod went about finding a mentor to improve himself in various aspects of life, such as being a better spouse, parent, professional, etc. Rod suggests that it is important to find someone who is better than oneself in a specific area, and then to ask them for advice and guidance. This is a way to improve oneself and reach a higher level of success. He also notes that it can be difficult to initiate this kind of conversation, but it is a valuable way to learn and grow.

We also touch on what to look for in a mentor, how to work with them and how to really get back to doing what we love.

About Rod: With a passion to improve people and organizations, Rod has worked in organizational development and leadership programming positions in a variety of industries including manufacturing, services, and higher education.

Rod is the founder and Lead Ninja of Down, Set, Lead; a strategic consulting group focused on helping organizations grow their business and people through coaching, training and mentoring programs, and leadership retreats. He is also the Project Director for Goldman Sachs’ 10,000 Small Businesses program in Baltimore.

Connect with Rod on Facebook, LinkedIn, and on the web at https://downsetlead.com/

Transcript (auto-generated; may contain errors):

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Jennifer Glass: Hello and welcome to another episode of MOJO: The Meaning of Life and Business

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Jennifer Glass: for a lot of people in business. Very often we forget about the joys of business. We forget about having fun doing what we’re doing. We also forget about being authentic and what it is that we do, because we believe that the world is judging us and saying.

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Jennifer Glass: Oh, you’re only doing this, you’re not good enough, or whatever it may be, that there’s all of these things that seem to be popping up and saying, Well, we’re not going in the right direction, and we also forget the value of mentorship

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Jennifer Glass: of how, having somebody there by our side to help us figure out? Are we going in the right direction? Do we maybe need to pivot before we end up in a place that we don’t know where we’re going to, or how do we just figure out how to skip past the trial and error phase

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Jennifer Glass: and get to the success part.

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Jennifer Glass: One of the founders of Google is credited as saying they would rather fail fast.

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Jennifer Glass: so that they can start over quicker.

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Jennifer Glass: then fail slow, and not learn quickly enough from their lesson. And so there’s so much of that that we are going to be unpacking on today’s episode, and I’ve got a really incredible guest with us. Who’s going to tell us why

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Jennifer Glass: all of this really matters. But before I bring our guest on, let me tell you a little bit about him.

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Jennifer Glass: With a passion to improve people and organizations wide what has worked in organizational development and leadership programming positions in a variety of industries, including manufacturing services and higher education. Rod Bourn, is the founder and lead Ninja of Down Set Lead,

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Jennifer Glass: a strategic consulting group focused on helping organizations grow their business and people through coaching, training and mentoring programs and leadership retreats.

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Jennifer Glass: He’s also the Project Director for Goldman Sachs’s 10,000 small business program in Baltimore. Rod, thank you so much for being on the show.

Rod Bourn: Thank you so much for having me. It’s great to be here.

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Jennifer Glass: Absolutely. Thank you

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Jennifer Glass: and before we get into the conversation. Let’s just quickly talk about the Goldman Sachs 10,000 business program, and I know that when we had spoken originally. you mentioned that you’ve been doing it for a while, and I mentioned that I knew the one that did it up here in the New York area. and i’m friends with him. But

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Rod Bourn: for the people that are not familiar with the Goldman Sachs 10,000 small business program. Can you give us a really quick idea of what it is? Because I didn’t mention that in your bio

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Rod Bourn: to take some time, and in a cohort setting

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Rod Bourn: to create a growth plan, not a business plan, but a growth plan for their business. And the format is that you get together one full day once a week 2,

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Rod Bourn: and you’re in a cohort of anywhere between 25 to 40 other business owners and we have smes who come in and we’ll tackle one topic per session. And again, you’re in there all day from about 8 to 5, and

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Rod Bourn: you are covering that topic that SME is talking about and

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Rod Bourn: relating it

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Rod Bourn: to how it directly impacts your business and what you need to do around that topic. And we front-load it with a lot of financial stuff.

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Rod Bourn: So because a lot of

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Rod Bourn: business owners, you know, we go into what our business is, because we’re passionate about.

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Rod Bourn: We’re passionate about caring for people or passion about physical therapy, or whatever it is that we that our business does.

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Rod Bourn: but that that doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re naturally strong with finance. So we we cover that part first, and then we go into all the other important aspects

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Rod Bourn: of that marketing

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Rod Bourn: leadership and negotiating, and all those other things. And when they come out.

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Rod Bourn: and, as I said, it’s one full day a week for about 16 sessions. You come out with a thick, thick binder. That is a growth plan designed specifically for your business, and it is totally a game change for it. It really

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Rod Bourn: takes people, you know. The old adage takes them to the next level. People come out of it. It’s not like They drank the glass of cool it. It’s like they poured the entire picture over their head and through the door going. Oh, yeah, it’s it’s very, very impactful. So for any of your listeners who happen to be a business owner and really doesn’t matter what industry you’re in as long as they meet the minimum qualifications which very little bit between each of the areas down in the Baltimore Washington area.

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Rod Bourn: I do outreach for the State of Maryland.

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Rod Bourn: but it’s across the country typically. It’s 2 years in business. 2 people on payroll and a 100,000 minimum in annual revenue, and as long as they meet that criteria they’re eligible to apply for the program

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Rod Bourn: you. And just to that we’re clear because we did fill out an acronym of SME. We’re talking about sales and marketing expert.

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Jennifer Glass: See?

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Jennifer Glass: A lot of people can be making that same mistake, and we just want to make sure that everybody has

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Jennifer Glass: what they need to know is that they’re not going to be

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Jennifer Glass: confused.

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Jennifer Glass: So

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Jennifer Glass: with the small business program from Goldman, where you’re the director down to the Baltimore area. But let’s talk about the the value of mentorship, because whether you’re part of the Goleman program, or you’re trying to find your own mentor.

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Jennifer Glass: Let’s start with what is the first thing that you should look for when you are looking for a mentor.

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Rod Bourn: Yeah. So let me backtrack just a little bit to tell you how

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Rod Bourn: I I think this to me is the panacea for a lot of the ills that

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Rod Bourn: we all face, regardless of of where we are in life. Who we are.

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Rod Bourn: This is something that came to me as I was reading.

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Rod Bourn: is one of those books of questions, you know, where there’s one question on each page.

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Rod Bourn: and this one really

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Rod Bourn: really has impacted me. I was in my thirties. This was several years ago, and I’m flipping through this book. And there’s this one question, and it was basically compared to 99 other people your age.

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Rod Bourn: How successful are you?

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Rod Bourn: And that’s a loaded question, Isn’t it.

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Rod Bourn: because you remember that was

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Rod Bourn: you, you you! You start to think. Well, how are we defining success here, you know. Is it how happy I am? Is it? How rich I am? Is it? How fulfill you? How are we defining success?

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Rod Bourn: So once you figure that out

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Rod Bourn: then? And I’m thinking, okay. So you know, I’ve been pretty fortunate my life. I had 2 parents love me, and you know we grew up in a house together, and I was able to piece together going to college. It wasn’t smooth, but I but I did it I got off to a rough

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Rod Bourn: start in my career because I didn’t have anyone who was like mentoring me, and I didn’t know how to create a mentorship.

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Rod Bourn: but I’ve been pretty successful. I’ve been pretty lucky. I think, that people make their own lock.

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Rod Bourn: and I I guess i’d be somewhere like 7,273.

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Rod Bourn: but there are certainly a lot of people who are better off than me, and that got me to thinking. Okay, Well, if I wanted to go from a 70 to like an 82,

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Rod Bourn: what do I need to do? Well, I should probably find someone who’s somewhere in the eighties and start emulating what they do.

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Rod Bourn: And so I started thinking about. Well, who is that? And I realized that it’s extremely rare to find someone who does everything really well

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Rod Bourn: right. So

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Rod Bourn: what do I want to get better at? I want to be a better husband. I want to be a better father. I want to be a better soccer coach. I want to be a better marketing professional. I want to be a better business, and whatever that is, you know, Pick one.

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Rod Bourn: and then think of someone who does a better job

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Rod Bourn: at that than you do.

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Rod Bourn: and from there it because it’s it’s very easy, but it’s difficult at the same time, because

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Rod Bourn: what you have to do is you have to go to that person that you know or at least see, and you have to say them.

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Rod Bourn: Hey, Jeff, I love the way that you handle your boys. I think you you seem to be an awesome father or hey, Joanne, I think that you do an awesome job as a marketing professional.

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Rod Bourn: I I love the creativity that you got, or hey, Jennifer, I love how you run podcast, I mean all your podcasts are awesome.

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Rod Bourn: And then you say

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Rod Bourn: I was wondering if you had about 30 min to grab a cup of coffee, so I could ask you a couple of questions about it.

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Rod Bourn: And what’s the one thing that everyone wants to talk about

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Rod Bourn: themselves, and so I sure, Rod, i’ll be more than happy to you. You buy me a cup of coffee, and i’ll tell you all about how I got to be so great so.

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Rod Bourn: But

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Rod Bourn: that is not an easy thing to do. Like I said it. It’s easy, and all you got to do is ask a question, but it’s not a natural thing for us to ask people. But this is someone who we see as being better than us we could learn from, because they are better than us, and because people like to talk about themselves.

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Rod Bourn: it’s a little egostroke. You can create an informal mentor

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Rod Bourn: for yourself mentoring relationship for yourself.

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Rod Bourn: and that’s the magic that’s the panacea. So whether it is you’re looking to become a better spouse, a better parent, a better professional.

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Rod Bourn: Whatever it is, you want to become better at it’s as easy as thinking, okay, Who’s someone who does better than me at that and if i’m a 72. I shouldn’t be asking someone who’s in 95. Okay, because I might be lucky just to wrap my head around what they’re talking about, because they’re so far advanced from me.

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Rod Bourn: But someone who’s an 81 or an 82, or an 80 I can probably you know capture and grasp what they’re talking about and begin to emulate it.

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Rod Bourn: And then.

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Rod Bourn: after I’ve

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Rod Bourn: found that okay, I can pull in what Leslie has taught me and apply it to what i’m doing.

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Rod Bourn: Then maybe I go up the rating a little bit from 72 to maybe 75 or 76. And then what I need to do is I need to find someone who again is 8 to 10 steps ahead of me. So someone who’s, maybe you know, an 85 or an 86. And I need to find someone new and hopefully, I’ve been networking, and I’ve introduced myself to a bunch of people who do whatever that is that I want to come better at.

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Rod Bourn: and I’ve met new people, and I asked the same question: hey, Joe, you seem to be really really good at this.

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Rod Bourn: Do you think

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Rod Bourn: you know, sometime next couple of weeks. We can get together for a cup of coffee for half an hour, and I can ask you a couple of questions about that, and so you move on to a new mentor, and that again it’s informal. But

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Rod Bourn: it has a

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Rod Bourn: lifespan to it, and it might be that you meet with this person over coffee

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Rod Bourn: 3, 4, 5, 6 times over the course of 3 to 6 months. So maybe you do it once a month, and what you’re doing each time, is you’re like.

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Rod Bourn: hey? I really got an awful lot of it out of our last talk.

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Rod Bourn: Can we meet again? So I got something that I want to share with you, and then you start sharing your new experiences that you’ve had in

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Rod Bourn: applying what you’ve learned from them.

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Rod Bourn: and

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Rod Bourn: you’re thrown it kind of back at them in conversation like, yeah. So you know you, you mentioned that one thing about

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Rod Bourn: how you know in in being a good parent. The kids want to hear the word know actually you know, they they they don’t want to be told. Yes, all the time they they need to be told. No. And so I use that. And

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Rod Bourn: and wow, you know this is the response I got in. Boom, boom, and your mentor will laugh and say, yeah, yeah, I’m glad that happened. Then you ask whatever your natural next question is for them, and it’s an ongoing conversation for that, you know 3 to 6 meetings, those 3 to 6 months that you have.

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Rod Bourn: And

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Rod Bourn: meanwhile, while you’re doing that.

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Rod Bourn: you’re offering them

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Rod Bourn: not just the little bit of ego strip. But whatever it is that you can offer them back, and because you you have to realize if your mentee it is a 2 way relationship, and you need to be giving back to them. And so, whatever it is that they may need, whether it is.

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Rod Bourn: you know, some insight is to something that you do well, or if it’s a contact that they have, or that they need that you may be able to introduce them to over Linkedin, or whatever.

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Rod Bourn: That’s how that relationship works. And it just is a rolling snowball down the hill that grows bigger and bigger.

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Jennifer Glass: And thank you. That was a

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Jennifer Glass: tremendously great answer. So thank you. and I wanted to thank you, by the way, also for saying that the podcast is awesome. So yes.

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Jennifer Glass: yes, thank you, and it’s really funny. Also, you mentioned in the beginning of this question you mentioned about this success, and it just so happens to be that my keynote is to success equate to happiness, and too many people are stuck in the day to day

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Jennifer Glass: thing. What is success like you said? How do you measure it? And it’s also One of the things that I found was that it’s really based on where you are in life that dictates how you see success right when you’re a kid, Your successes, maybe I got this paper out, or this lemonade stand, and I got

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Jennifer Glass: $5 because that was my goal to get, and then yes, i’m so successful.

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Jennifer Glass: And then, as you get older, it’s the car, the house, the vacation, all of these things that we want, but the grass is always green or on the other side. So at what point do we really start seeing the overall success? But

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Jennifer Glass: I love, though how you’re also saying, now find the people who are 8 to 10 steps ahead of you

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Jennifer Glass: and see what they can teach you to really be hoping you.

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Jennifer Glass: and that’s one of the things that I learned. early on was Don’t. Look at people who are in a similar place as you.

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Jennifer Glass: because you can’t grow if the 2 of you are too close together right? There’s just no like

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Jennifer Glass: people who are looking to lose weight. You don’t get to £300 people saying they’re going to go walking together because it’s not going to happen just like people are going to stop smoking. You gotta look for the one that already got there.

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Jennifer Glass: And then what did you do? That’s going to make that difference. And so that’s what’s really important in terms of what we do. So I love the how you thought about that question, and really finding that mentor ment your relationship

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Jennifer Glass: to get them started. And how do you move it forward? So you are saying, though, like a 3 to 6 month window. for the duration. Would you look at a particular Mentor Mentee relationship in a more longer term fashion, though, or would you still recommend

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Rod Bourn: keeping it on the smaller side and staying, I guess, more informally in touch as you keep moving on. Yeah, I think that it is important to let the people who are mentoring you

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Rod Bourn: up to date with what’s going on. But, like I said, if you’re

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Rod Bourn: applying what you’re learning.

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Rod Bourn: and the song that they’re singing sings to you. You know things to your heart. You know

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Rod Bourn: you’ll learn how to do what it is that they that they’re doing, and

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Rod Bourn: slowly maybe catch up to them and you.

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Rod Bourn: It’s not unusual for us that sometimes Mentees will surpass mentors, and it could be for a variety of reasons.

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Rod Bourn: But you want to

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Rod Bourn: not

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Rod Bourn: make the person feel like they’re being used, or that you’re taxing them too much, or whatever. Sometimes there’s a real natural friendship that grows out of it, and you can continue to meet and have coffee as friends, as colleagues, whatever. But

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Rod Bourn: you want to make sure again that you’re that you’re giving something back to the Mentor, and I’ve found that

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Rod Bourn: mentorships typically work well or best, I should say, when they’re kept to under a year, will say, You know, 3 to 6 months depending on what it is you’re looking to get

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Rod Bourn: is typically going to be enough. 3 at minimum. I would say, 4, 5, 6, maybe up to 8 is maybe your sweet spot once you start getting over, you know, 8 months, or whatever.

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Rod Bourn: Then again, you don’t want to be taxing this person and making them feel like they’re being used. They’re like, Wow! I should charge this person for coaching them, or you know, along those lines. But at the same time, if they. If you, you know you, you want to

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Rod Bourn: let the person know that you appreciate them. and as you move on to a new mentor that maybe you introduce them to your new mentor, because it might be someone who could mentor them actually.

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Rod Bourn: And

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Rod Bourn: But if you know, but if a natural friendship develops, and I’ve certainly been in all of those situations

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Rod Bourn: one of my mentors

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Rod Bourn: from a couple of years ago.

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Rod Bourn: He and our he and I are now very close friends, and

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Rod Bourn: you know we get together, you know, you know, as as couples. You know him and his wife, me and my wife, and we go do things socially. I still learn things from him, or I still, you know, bounce ideas off of him, and he actually does it. Does it with me now and

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Rod Bourn: it’s a very rewarding relationship

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Jennifer Glass: absolutely when you have those

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Jennifer Glass: when when relationships.

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Jennifer Glass: That is a really incredible program, I mean the when when it really is, when both sides have that advantage.

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Jennifer Glass: and

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Jennifer Glass: just saying When the student becomes the teacher

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Jennifer Glass: really is going back, you mentioned. Sometimes the Mentee becomes surpasses the mentor, and it’s exactly in that kind of an idea. And that’s where this saying really does come from. When the student becomes a teacher, and sometimes.

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Jennifer Glass: and we always hope that our students are going to eventually surpass us. It’s like the American dream, if you will, that the parents raise our kids, and we want them to do better than we did.

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Jennifer Glass: and many generations have been doing that recently. That kind of went backwards. But that’s an entirely different conversation. But it’s a way that we can be judging the relationships that we have in terms of how we go about that.

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Jennifer Glass: And I like also how you.

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Jennifer Glass: or

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Jennifer Glass: having fun with your mentor, too, that you’re going out with them now socially that it’s no longer purely business, but that it’s that

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Jennifer Glass: familiar way of working with them, because that’s really when you get the most valuable information, too, because sometimes

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Jennifer Glass: they and you may be holding back something, and when they really get to know you.

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Jennifer Glass: they know what your tells are, unless you’re playing poker with them, too, and then in which case it’s a different story. But

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Jennifer Glass: you know many times that when we’re talking with people there’s a certain tell that is involved in how do we really

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Jennifer Glass: make things stand out? are we really telling the truth? But when you really know someone all of a sudden, it’s like all right. Now I really get you. Now I know

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Rod Bourn: everything because you are not telling me something.

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Rod Bourn: Yeah. And

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Rod Bourn: but but the reason I think that if you do this right

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Rod Bourn: that you will find that it’s fun, and that it’s easy to be authentic is because you’re picking something that you want to get better at. Okay.

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Rod Bourn: you might be in Job a.

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Rod Bourn: and your job kind of touches a little bit on Job B. And it’s what the people in job be. Do that really interests you. And so, because you’re talking

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Rod Bourn: so, someone who and and developing that informal relationship, you reach out to someone who does Job be like, I would love to learn more about you and what it is that you do, and what your field is about, and what you know. Education, requirements, certification, requirements. You know, whatever it is, how to get to. You know I want to be like you when I grow up.

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Rod Bourn: and because you have such an interest and passion about learning that

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Rod Bourn: you’re like. I said it’s got that snowball effect, Jennifer. So you are

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Rod Bourn: just naturally

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Rod Bourn: going to be excited about it, and if You’re excited about something. You’re having fun, and if you’re having fun, the person is mentoring you a scene. You have fun, and they’re kind of like chuckling to themselves, and they remember and kind of reminding them as to why they are doing what they do. And

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Rod Bourn: you know part of the benefit of being a mentor is the old covey line.

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Rod Bourn: you know. Sharpen the knife.

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Rod Bourn: and by

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Rod Bourn: by having a mentee you know someone who looks up to you is like, Wow, I want to be, you know, running a really great podcast in 2 years. So you know, I can look to Jennifer, and you know what I’m following what she does and doing movement all of a sudden. Jennifer’s like, oh, wow! I’ve got this person who’s like really obviously paying attention to me. I’d better make sure. I’m on my piece and queues on staying up on the latest thing, and you know boom, boom, boom, and so it helps the mentor stay sharp as well. And so that’s

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Rod Bourn: that. It intrinsically creates the passion. It it intrinsically creates the passion. It it intrinsically creates the fun, and that’s why? And and because you’re doing that, you’re being authentic to you, you’re following what your passion is.

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Rod Bourn: and

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Rod Bourn: the the most

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Rod Bourn: impactful

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Rod Bourn: that I heard

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Rod Bourn: during the the pandemic when we were all doing networking online was the there are people out there waiting to love you.

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Rod Bourn: and

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Rod Bourn: I heard that it just, you know, sound of a car, you know, screeching to a halt

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Rod Bourn: in my mind. There are people out there waiting to love you, and what that means, and I’ve found to be totally true is

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Rod Bourn: people love authentic people.

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Rod Bourn: you know. You see, someone who is just being them.

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Rod Bourn: And

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Rod Bourn: you’re like you go. You know W. Whatever it is that they’re doing it, and it might not be something that things directly to you. But someone is happy. They’re doing what they want to do. They aren’t hurting anybody. But they’re they’re being them. They’re

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Rod Bourn: being themselves.

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Rod Bourn: And people love that people are drawn to that now

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Rod Bourn: that automatically means that there are going to be some people who aren’t going to be drawn to you and I’ll I’ll use myself as an example. Okay, i’m the kind of person that I I say outright to my clients. I like to have fun.

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Rod Bourn: and so if there’s a person who is like, oh, well, we don’t have fun here of the ABC. Corporation. We’re here to get to work and do things, and so i’m not going to get hired by them. And that’s perfectly fine with me, because

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Rod Bourn: probably what i’m going to be singing in front of them as I go out the door. They’re gonna say, don’t you dare do a thing that, he said. You know we we do things this way. Why did you hire him to come in?

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Rod Bourn: But there are going to be people who are like. We love to have fun, Rod, and we we like to do experiential learning. We like to move around, and as long as, but but i’m also secretly a task master. So i’m. I make sure when i’m talking to my clients, I actually did this this morning with with a client.

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Rod Bourn: We’re we’re planning a program later this month, and I said what you know they wanted to do. Team building. I’m like it’s great. But what what? You ultimately want to get out. Why, why do you want team building?

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Rod Bourn: They explain, you know, while we you know we’re all coming back together. we have mandatory 2 days in the office. And Some people have never even met one another. I’m like, okay, great.

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Rod Bourn: So you want to get that they’re familiar with one another that you want to knock down the walls. You want to begin to develop trust. Boom. I can do that, and that, and that’s the program that we’re going to be putting together for them.

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Rod Bourn: but they want to have fun. They were excited about that. But there are some some people. There are some corporations, some organizations

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Rod Bourn: that’s not who they are, and you. And so, if you’re being authentic, if you’re being real, if you’re chasing who you want to be, understand. You’re going to attract other people who are like you. Go, Jennifer, you go, Rod, you go, Leslie and

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Rod Bourn: those will become your true fans, and the people who will support you, and you know, cheer you, and

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Rod Bourn: you know, make you feel like you know what I am going down the right path, and you begin to feel

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Rod Bourn: better about yourself. You begin to feel more confident. People are attracted to confident people, and again, it’s just that wonderful snowball effect.

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Jennifer Glass: Thank you, and

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Jennifer Glass: it’s funny, because with a lot of my clients, I tell them I can’t be their mentor without being their torment, or sometimes to like that.

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Rod Bourn: Can I use that? I love that? That’s a great line.

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Jennifer Glass: Thank you.

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Jennifer Glass: So yeah. So it really, though, fits in with that. And

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Jennifer Glass: I wanted just to kind of segue, because you mentioned the idea of having fun, and I wanted to talk about your battlefield program that you do. and

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Rod Bourn: I don’t want to kind of jump the gun, but i’ll say it’s around the Gettysburg battlefield, and i’ll let you kinda explain a little bit more in the value that that brings when you’re working with your clients on the battlefield. Yup. So one of the thanks very much for for asking about. So one of the programs I do is called leadership in the battlefield.

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Rod Bourn: and as I mentioned, I live in the Baltimore Washington area, and so

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Rod Bourn: one of the things that I do is take advantage. Gettysburg is right up the road from us, and what we’ll do is with the program called leadership in the battlefield, and

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Rod Bourn: we get

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Rod Bourn: folks up on a nice air conditioned coach bus, and we go on up to about an hour drive from where we leave, and in that hour of time. I have one of my co-workers. He is a reenactor and a civil war reenactor and so he’ll actually

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Rod Bourn: talk to the folks in the bus to kind of prep them as to give them some background on. You know what Gettysburg was about what was at stake during that battle, and introduced some of the key people that we’re going to be talking about as we do the tour. We get up to Gettysburg, and we pick up an official tour guide.

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Rod Bourn: and we go chronologically through the battlefield. It was a 3 day battle, and so there was an awful lot going on, and so we our very first stop is what happened the first day, the the morning of the first day, and

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Rod Bourn: just real quick in a nutshell. Essentially, neither army knew exactly where the other one was.

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Rod Bourn: the Union army discovered where the Confederate army was without themselves being detected, and they

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Rod Bourn: created a small stand where they knew that they could

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Rod Bourn: delay the Confederate army enough in of, and and give the Union army enough time to get in their best situation to fight the battle, knowing that they would have to give up that position. after a while of trying to defend it. But it would buy time for the Union army.

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Rod Bourn: So

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Rod Bourn: our guides, you know, explaining all this that happened in 1,863, and then the conversation becomes okay.

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Rod Bourn: How does that relate to what happens in your organization today?

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Rod Bourn: How does when you know that there is either a threat

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Rod Bourn: or an opportunity that is about to come over the ridge, and you are not ready for it.

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Rod Bourn: What are you gonna do to STEM the tide so that you can be ready for it when you really need to. You know, when when that wave comes crashing up against the the the head wall, that you’ll be ready to either through that threat or welcome that opportunity with wide open arms, and we break

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Rod Bourn: groups into people, into groups.

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Rod Bourn: You know we get the you may have written up in the bus with your best friend Joan. But i’m gonna make sure that Jones in another group.

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Rod Bourn: and that you because i’m a huge believer in cross-pollinating ideas. And so every time we get off the bus we do this 6, 8, 10 times throughout the day.

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Rod Bourn: where

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Rod Bourn: you learn what happened there and then, okay, how does that translate into what you need to be ready to do in business? How is either that really brave slash, smart, or that really egotistic slash, dung move that that person made in 1,863. How does that relate to what could happen in your organization? And you’re talking with people

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Rod Bourn: that you hadn’t met before on the bus. And so it’s

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Rod Bourn: It’s team building it’s leadership development. It’s networking, and we’re outside. Not You know. I believe that you know that humans need to be outside as much as possible, because we get such good Mojo from, you know, being outside being indoors.

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Rod Bourn: It. It. It kind of dolls us a little bit, I think, when we get outside, and we’re learning, and we’re having fun it just

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Rod Bourn: like again. I. I look for that fun that snowball and people come back, and they’re all ready to apply. You know, one or 2 really good learning from that day to what is going on at their office.

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Jennifer Glass: and it’s definitely a great program, because it really makes people

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Jennifer Glass: connect like you said with other people. You were using the idea of cross-pollinating the ideas. And how that really does

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Jennifer Glass: ultimately benefit the team

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Jennifer Glass: because everybody starts seeing things through a different perspective. right now they’re so myopic because they’ve been looking at only this way. And then all of a sudden they open up their eyes, and they start seeing things very differently, and it’s a great way of continuing to build the team.

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Jennifer Glass: And that’s one of the things that I’ve been doing also with a lot of events that I do. I took a page out of one of my coaches programs.

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Jennifer Glass: and I use a welcome bingo

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Jennifer Glass: where it’s really

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Jennifer Glass: who’s got this? Who knows that? Who can do this, whatever it is, on the Bingo board? And you really get to know the people a lot deeper. I did this recently at my Chamber of Commerce. we had a retreat for our board, and

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Jennifer Glass: considering the fact that most of the people on the board have known each other for 5, 10 plus years.

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Jennifer Glass: We still learned a lot more about people on the board, simply because we had these

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Jennifer Glass: who excelled in sports, in high school, you know, who played sports in college, who swims every day, who, you know, doesn’t watch TV, but watches Youtube all the time, and you know things along those lines. And it was just a way to really get

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Jennifer Glass: a lot more knowledge, because when you really know somebody more personal.

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Rod Bourn: it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s it’s, it’s, it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s it.

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Jennifer Glass: so Rod let me ask you recently released a new book.

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Rod Bourn: Yeah.

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Rod Bourn: can you tell us more about the

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Rod Bourn: basically the chronology of leadership. it’s

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Rod Bourn: I think best tailored for young professionals. you know entry level and mid-level managers. But I think anyone with, you know, even older leaders might or season leaders might appreciate it.

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Rod Bourn: it started off. My career

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Rod Bourn: was 15 years in human resources to start.

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Rod Bourn: I tell people if I don’t have here anymore. Not that anyone can see me but and you know, after that amount of time. I was just.

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Rod Bourn: I I was done. I was the UN done with all the investigations of you know people in their s s acting like their 3 four-year-olds can’t get along the sandbox, and

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Rod Bourn: after maybe a year in hr I started actually collecting a a list of you know personal Journal of

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Rod Bourn: All of the weird things that I had to investigate. You know the old truth is stranger than fiction kind stuff, and that was what Originally I was going to write. Jennifer was a a book about the you know, all the different kinds of weird, bizarre things that go on in the workplace.

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Rod Bourn: I was gonna call the book. What were you thinking?

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Rod Bourn: Because

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Rod Bourn: before I fired people I I I got so jaded towards my Hr. Career that I would literally ask them. So before I fire you, Joe, I got one question for you.

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Rod Bourn: What were you thinking and the person across me? Would you know? Try to, you know. Explain it is, you know. Oh, it’s totally natural. This is why I would have done that. I’m like, you know.

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Rod Bourn: And as I started writing the book.

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Rod Bourn: It dawned on me. This is more about leadership or lack there of that allowed the situation to take place.

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Rod Bourn: and so there are still plenty of stories about wacky stuff that I had to investigate, but

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it

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Rod Bourn: turn more into. Okay? Well, this is

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Rod Bourn: what what a leader needs to do, and kind of fell into first. The leader needs to do this, and then they need to do this and this so it’s and it’s got a football motif, because I love football, and the chapters are interspersed with

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Rod Bourn: reflections from people who either played or coached, or actually in in one case was a

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Rod Bourn: as a senior administrator was a Vice President and the general manager of a couple of different Nfl teams, and they throw in their

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Rod Bourn: on that chapter, and it’s really neat. So

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Rod Bourn: like I said, it’s it’s especially good, I think, for entry level and mid-level managers. because it kind of talks about. Okay, You’ve walked into the situation. What’s the first thing you should do? Okay, after you’ve done that, then what do you do? And it’s just kind of progresses to the point where the end of the book

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Rod Bourn: you’ve got a, you know, high tuned running, you know, self running team. And you’re like, okay, I’m ready for my next

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Rod Bourn: next to science. My next challenge and it’s quick Read you know, 140 pages, or whatever it’s got a lot of fun. Hr: stories. It’s got some a lot of football ideas, and it’s it’s got movie quotes who doesn’t look maybe close. Each chapter starts off with a movie quote

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Rod Bourn: and fortunately, I’ve gotten a lot of really

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Rod Bourn: positive feedback on it. So i’m i’m real happy proud that I got that out.

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Jennifer Glass: It’s great, and you probably have a lot of fodder for an open might night. Also, with what we thinking.

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Jennifer Glass: I definitely know exactly what you’re saying. I in one of my roles. I was the confident

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Jennifer Glass: for 3 people in my department. there were 2 secretaries and another director who

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Jennifer Glass: Oh, gosh! I really hope they’re not listening right now. but they would each come to me, and I had to hold each other’s confidences.

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Jennifer Glass: and not say that I told somebody to do this or that, and it really, as my boss said it was Pixie and Trixie.

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Jennifer Glass: for those of

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Jennifer Glass: you that are of a certain age. You may know that if not, just look it up, and you can figure it out. But the idea, though, is that there’s so much out there that we’re always dealing with. And then I had one client when I was focused on the payment processing space.

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Jennifer Glass: Who? he

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Jennifer Glass: was a comedy of errors, and one of the things that he did. And

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Jennifer Glass: there’s times where, if I really needed material for an open mic night, I mean I would have a ton of that and it’s. What are you doing? You know what made you do that like? Why would you leave your wallet in the van with your Id and your social security in a totally way zone.

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Rod Bourn: I mean enough said. You can probably figure out where that story goes.

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Jennifer Glass: But the idea, though, is, what are you doing? And I love how the book, though, is really broken down into the way that people can really figure out. What are the lessons that I need to be figuring out here to really be

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Jennifer Glass: moving from Point a to point. B: how can I keep these problems

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Jennifer Glass: from developing in our own organization? Because we know that a lack of leadership. Right? It says in in the political theory, power reports a vacuum, and it’s going to be that way in business, too.

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Jennifer Glass: If you Don’t have leadership at the top. The rest of the business does not function, and it kind of just falls apart. And so thank you for writing that, and for being there to really hopefully give a lot more guidance for people, and it is available right now on Amazon.

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Jennifer Glass: and we’ll have the link in the show notes. So you can certainly check that out and pick up a copy of your own, and make sure that you reach out to Ron and let him know that he can personally. Thank you.

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Jennifer Glass: forgetting that thought. And so let me ask you.

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Jennifer Glass: People have been listening to this chat for the last

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Jennifer Glass: half hour or so. How can they find out more about you, and how they can get more in your circle?

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Rod Bourn: Yup. Well, I love to connect with people so anyone who is feeling like they might want to linkedin. I I love using linkedin. It’s a wonderful tool so reach out to me. It’s rod as an hot golden lightning rod with a d

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Rod Bourn: last name is born. Vo. You are n like Jason. I I tell people i’m. Jason’s older brother, and taught him everything I know, and then I got out of the the system, but no e on the end. Vo, you are n so Rod born on linkedin

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Rod Bourn: I have a website that is down. Set lead.

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Rod Bourn: and it’s do wn s t, lad.com. We’ve got a lot of videos on there that they can check out My! My marketing guys got me on Instagram’s tik tok. He’s got me on on everything.

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Rod Bourn: So there are a lot of really really good short bits. I think that we’ve done. We’ve had a lot of fun with queue cards recently. So i’m literally not saying anything. But we’re finding an inventive way to get messages across and the the

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Rod Bourn: the the input, that we’ve gotten the the reflections we’ve gotten from People have been a lot of fun, and again it’s it’s fun. It’s like you. You get to learn me really quick by just watching 4 or 5 of the especially the outdoor videos with the queue cards that we shot. but look me up Either place Linkedin, I love to connect

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Rod Bourn: look up, downset, lead, and like I said, the the book of the same name is on Amazon.

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Rod Bourn: Okay, so you’re doing the love actually cue cards. But, huh!

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Rod Bourn: We have that movie.

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Rod Bourn: Yup! Yup, I I I saw someone do that. I I I You know I never. Well, I I’ve seen clips of that movie.

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Rod Bourn: but I’ve also seen other people do it. and I think it’s a really effective

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Rod Bourn: marketing tool because it catches your attention, you know. Okay, what’s the next card inside? And

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Rod Bourn: we just had a lot of fun with it. There, there are a couple. We we end up it. It seems to be, you know a day is going to be windy when we’re shooting these, because i’ll flip the card and still go singing, you know 20, you know, but we just have fun with it.

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Jennifer Glass: and it’s good. And again it goes back to the basics that we said in the beginning it comes down to having fun. It comes down to really knowing.

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Jennifer Glass: not to take yourself too seriously, and to be making a difference to both be a mentor and a mentee at the right time.

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Jennifer Glass: and to be there for others in a way that you’re going to continue doing the best thing that you can be doing. So ride. Thank you so much for being my guest on the show, and again make sure that you check out down set lead.com

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Jennifer Glass: where you’re going to be getting so much valuable information. So why again, Thank you. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it

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Jennifer Glass: absolutely. Thank you so much. And again.

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Jennifer Glass: make sure that as you’re looking at what you’re going to be doing next, when you’re figuring out how it is that you are going to be

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Jennifer Glass: getting that next step.

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Jennifer Glass: Have the people there that can really be giving you that guidance? How are you finding those 5 to 10 people that are also going to be pulling you

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Jennifer Glass: right.

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Jennifer Glass: The idea is, Surround yourself with the 5 people that can keep pulling you up.

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Jennifer Glass: You have to expand that a little bit more, because now it may be closer to 10 people that can really be pulling you up. But you want to make sure that you’re also pulling others up.

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Jennifer Glass: and that what you get you give as well, it is all.

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Jennifer Glass: How do we give back it’s? Are we going to be only in it for us, or we in it for everyone else? One of the things that I love about doing this show is that I get to talk with some really incredible people.

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Jennifer Glass: and really shine a light on what it is that they are doing for their particular constituency.

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Jennifer Glass: where it’s the local community. It’s a charitable organization. It’s an organization that is helping businesses, whatever it may be. We’re all in this world together, and I think that we can all agree that we were put on this earth to be leaving it in a better position than we found it.

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Jennifer Glass: And so think about what it is that you are going to be doing, moving forward to be making that difference to be a shining light of your own, so that people see you and are attracted to you.

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Jennifer Glass: and want to be in your orbit that they become who I gotta be mentored by that person because they know a thing or 2 about how to do this, and be freely giving

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Jennifer Glass: to a point, of course, but freely giving of yourself to the people when they’re trying to help, the more that you can be out there. It does come back. Karma is definitely there, and whatever you put out does tend to come back may not be today or tomorrow, but it will be coming back.

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Jennifer Glass: at some point soon they’re after. So on that note once again, rod. Thank you so much for being my guest.

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Thank you.

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Jennifer Glass: And until next time this has been another episode of Mojo, The Meaning of Life and Business. And here’s to your success.